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i as i promised earlier i'm going to

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take this conversation in another

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direction tonight too as well i would

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like to welcome back the fade to black

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dr robert m shock robert good evening my

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friend how are you yeah good evening

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it's great being here it's it's always

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good to hear your voice and thank you i

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hope i made you nervous

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i mean is it possible is it possible for

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me see this is the thing um when

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uh

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and this is the the honest truth

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when you do as many interviews and hang

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out as you and i and rita and katie have

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done over the years the audience gets to

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enjoy that so always you know the first

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interview is

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the the same questions that you get

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asked a thousand times right and you've

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got to you've got to put up with that

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but as the interviews go on

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you and i are more comfortable with each

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other and we can push each other around

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a little bit and and hopefully you know

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peel back the onion a few layers and we

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get to do that but the other thing is

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this when when you do that then we now

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have the ability to just sit and talk

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and that's what i want to do tonight can

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we just sit and talk

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yeah sure okay so are you relaxed then

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i'm trying to be relaxed you make me a

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little nervous but i'm no no you're

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great oh man i remember uh this takes me

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back uh a few years uh when uh we were

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doing a panel together at a contact in

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the desert

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and you ended up coming out on that

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panel like seven times remember we were

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doing the count with the audience

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remember i remember i remember somehow i

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knew you would bring that up you know it

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was so funny because you were starting

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to fidget a little bit

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you were starting to fidget

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and but it was great and see and and

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again um it's about trust but the

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audience gets to

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go along uh for the ride when that

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happens and and i really enjoy it

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so i agree i agree all right let's let's

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get straight to a couple of things uh

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that you are working on before uh we

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start to take off here

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you um had mentioned to me uh about a

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year ago

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uh about uh the possibility and the

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excitement of a documentary and that you

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were involved with jim fields and of

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course jim fields uh directed

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uh the amazing documentary about the

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ramones called end of the century

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and uh

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that said to me robert

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i i've always called you a rock star you

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got the long flowing locks and you know

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when you were young and crazy and and

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you were you know you were this rock

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star to me and you had that image

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but jim fields right

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are you are you a ramones fan

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uh actually well

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i suppose i am if i'm a fan of anything

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yeah i do like ramones and i i will tell

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just a little little story here i was at

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yale i went and you mentioned this i did

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my phd at yale university my m phil

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masters there also so i was at yale for

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a number of years well i say a number of

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years four or five years total at yale

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and at yale in new haven there's a place

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i think it's still there toad's place

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uh

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basically i don't know toad's place how

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do you describe it it's uh you know the

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car and what what do they call that

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where you go and you can hear local

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bands that type of thing i would call

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that a college music

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dive bar

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something like that anyway it's actually

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very very famous right and major groups

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will come through there i mean rolling

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stones i think have been there etc so

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the ramones came and a bunch of us all

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paid you know i don't know dollar cover

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charge or something to go see the

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ramones

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and i have to say it was probably the

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most fun the most invigorating

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i wouldn't even call it a concert just

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show i've seen and that's how that would

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be i was you know

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seven feet

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from the stage joey is

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singing away it was just great and that

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was so much fun now if this was at yale

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what city uh is toad's new haven new

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haven connect okay so new haven toad's

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place in new haven connect if you look

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it up or if people look it up i mean

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it's actually pretty famous i think for

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what year would that have been

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uh it well i was at in new haven from 79

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to

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84.

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that range and they honestly don't

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remember exactly what year was i once

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tried to figure it out by looking up

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when

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ramon's passed through new haven and

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when they were at uh toes place and i

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think they were there several times

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during the time i was there so it was

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one of those times that's what they were

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they were on their game oh they were

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great they they i had to be you know was

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when they were really at i guess their

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height you know why

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you know why i believe the story

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because you were in college

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[Laughter]

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because you were in college and you

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don't remember what year that's awesome

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that's true

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that is true

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they were they were really good i mean

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they were just really very genuine it

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was also i mean by modern standards

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i think when i think back on it it you

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know what they were doing was

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well by modern standards illegal what i

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mean by that is i remember toad's place

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was completely packed um it was

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pretty much you know had to be standing

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room only at that point because you know

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people wanted to come see them

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and everyone's crowded in standing there

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you know you couldn't barely move and

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then all the lights go out so it's

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totally black when they come on stage i

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mean like i said i was only what seven

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feet or something like that literally

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from the stage i couldn't see anything

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and then they go i'm not going to try to

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imitate them one two three and start

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playing and then suddenly the lights

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come on and they just took it from there

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oh man

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amazing amazing yeah it was absolutely

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amazing

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so now that i'm doing

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a project with jim fields who did the uh

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the the end of the century the story of

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the ramones incredible

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documentary rock documentary i mean how

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did

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with jim

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he actually contacted me he contacted me

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said he was interested in

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the what i'm doing and uh

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had heard me speak etc you know on

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youtube or whatever and

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knew

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you know heard through the grapevine or

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maybe i'd said it

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that uh i was interested in doing a

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documentary right

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yeah and you know i've got to tell you a

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lot of people contacted katie and i

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about it you know all these people come

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out of the woodwork so to speak

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filmmakers and blah blah blah and i'm

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not putting any of them down but you

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need the right person that you feel

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comfortable with

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and when i saw he had done the remote i

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said this is someone i have to look at

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yeah no doubt and and

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he took it from there he's just such a

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great guy how does that you know that's

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that's

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a very special moment but

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if if i if i can ask you how do you

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how do you feel at that moment when

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somebody like jim field uh is is

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following your work you didn't know

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anything about this how does that make

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you feel how did you react

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i i was sort of flabbergasted i don't

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know it feels good

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it's good i mean i don't i don't know i

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i you know to this day

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i don't want to sound the wrong way i

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really don't want to sound the wrong way

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but katie and i are driving we drove

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down from we drove from boston to dc to

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see my father that type of thing we stop

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at uh one of these rest stops and

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someone comes up and

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starts talking to me and knows who i am

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i mean i still

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i'm not used to it i i don't take these

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things for granted now what you ended up

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doing and and again we talked about this

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a while ago but you ended up

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uh doing uh a kickstarter uh for for the

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project now

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okay i want to get into the background

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of this because this is actually very

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exciting normally

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when you announce a kickstarter you're

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starting at zero and you're hoping for

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the best the in in this case uh

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you're doing really really well so this

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is what i want to say thank you thank

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you thank you and i want to say that

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we're we're so appreciative the

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kickstarter we have the stick kicks i

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can't talk we have the kickstarter

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campaign going

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and we started

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uh 22 days ago and we have a goal of 50

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000 and i'm pleased to say that we have

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met the goal

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uh we're now at 51 000

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uh plus

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and what that means with kickstarter

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those who are not familiar with it you

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have to meet your goal otherwise you

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don't get anything now that we've met

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our goal we know that we're really going

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to um we've made it but we want to

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continue going yeah yeah because and

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well let me uh is it okay if i interrupt

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because i just may interrupt any time

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but i want to say one thing and that is

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that we were talking about jim fields

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and you know documentaries putting

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things together takes a lot of people

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and we're just so appreciative of all

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the people that have been helping us and

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have written to us and in fact some of

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them will be calling on again probably

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because you don't just have one person

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doing this you have

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sound you have uh post-production you

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sometimes need more than one camera

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person you've got uh you have to lay

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down soundtracks you have composition so

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there's a lot i mean i know you know

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that but not necessarily everyone uh

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listening to

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there is knows that so we're going to be

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you know we've got other people

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that we're probably going to be calling

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on too to get involved with this so yeah

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i'm just overwhelmed by

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the offers to help and

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and getting back to the kickstarter uh

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people who have chipped in for it yeah

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and there's a tentative working title

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which i'm very excited about it's called

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how old is civilization

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that's what that's what we're calling

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the kickstarter right now now what the

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00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:02,720
final title for the documentary will be

279
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:04,640
is to be determined maybe it's something

280
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:07,760
like that maybe it changes but you know

281
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:09,519
when i write a book for instance a lot

282
00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:10,880
of times you know i don't know the title

283
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:12,320
of the book until it's

284
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:13,760
pretty much done

285
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:16,320
if i played it shapes itself if i pledge

286
00:11:21,269 --> 00:11:19,519
five grand right now can i can i name

287
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:21,279
the film

288
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,160
uh

289
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,399
i don't know if i could give you

290
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:26,160
right now

291
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:28,399
but you can pledge five grand i know i

292
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:29,920
know i could

293
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:31,519
because i was thinking about we could

294
00:11:36,140 --> 00:11:35,120
call it like jimmy's friend robert

295
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:36,150
oh there you go

296
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,680
[Laughter]

297
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,360
five grand um

298
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:41,600
that might be the next film how's that

299
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:44,480
so can i put a plug in so we do have

300
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:46,640
this kickstarter campaign going i would

301
00:11:51,190 --> 00:11:49,920
love to see people uh donate to it

302
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:51,200
and

303
00:11:55,509 --> 00:11:53,360
may i put some plugs in for it well i

304
00:11:57,990 --> 00:11:55,519
was going to plug for you but you do

305
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:58,000
want to for me then i'll i'll i'll chime

306
00:12:02,310 --> 00:11:59,680
in if i need to well this is what i

307
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:02,320
wanted to say i don't want uh you and i

308
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:05,360
to forget this um even though the goal

309
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:07,839
has been met at 50 grand because this is

310
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:12,480
also oracle which is a 501c charity

311
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:14,000
because of that

312
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,200
that all of the extra money here you

313
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:19,519
will be able to use for additional

314
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:23,519
research uh by oracle which includes

315
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:25,760
going to egypt and maybe

316
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:28,000
maybe maybe finding out what's

317
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:30,880
underneath that paw on the sphinx

318
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:32,880
i'm just suggesting i'm suggesting

319
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:35,279
something right now just an idea uh to

320
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,279
plant in your head but that's what i

321
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,200
want the audience to know that yes it's

322
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,519
exciting that the goal was met but

323
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:43,519
because of the way that this is set up

324
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:45,760
and this is also oracle

325
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:47,600
um which is a great research

326
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,440
organization that

327
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,839
uh we can keep this thing going and we

328
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:54,160
keep it let's get this to 150 grand you

329
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:55,519
know let's just yeah that would that

330
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,320
would be great exactly and you just said

331
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,399
about reiterated oracle which is

332
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:02,560
organization for the research of ancient

333
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:06,480
cultures is a non-profit it's a 501c3 as

334
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:09,360
you mentioned so actually in this case

335
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,959
most kickstarters you know you're just

336
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:13,120
donating to someone's

337
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:14,720
yeah and i'm not putting that down but

338
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,639
you're donating to someone's project

339
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:19,120
this is to a organization as a

340
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:21,440
non-profit so actually the

341
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:24,079
donations are tax deductible to the

342
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:26,480
extent of the law as they say but it's

343
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:29,120
their tax deductible and anything we

344
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:31,200
don't use for the documentary and you

345
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:37,190
we want to do a really good documentary

346
00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:38,160
so

347
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:39,200
uh

348
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:41,279
things get pricey you and i were talking

349
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:43,600
before and i was mentioning to you that

350
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:47,600
just permissions alone in egypt can cost

351
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:51,040
2 500 a day and up

352
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,800
that's before you start paying any of

353
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:54,480
the other expenses

354
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:56,800
so when i say permissions permissions to

355
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:58,880
fill that type of thing but anything

356
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:00,880
that we have

357
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:04,240
after the documentary is made goes into

358
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,959
continuing research like the paw

359
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:08,720
unlike the chamber under the paw of the

360
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,560
sphinx that can go into further

361
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:12,880
documentaries i mean i have big plans we

362
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:15,680
have big plans now what's the overall

363
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:17,279
they will all go to

364
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:21,120
very good uses what's the overall uh

365
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:23,040
concept that you and jim have put

366
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:25,360
together for the documentary

367
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,519
well i was going to say jim

368
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:30,000
myself and katie i want to include katie

369
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:31,360
in here because she's very much a

370
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,760
driving force behind the documentary

371
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,440
this is something that we've been

372
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,680
talking about for a long time

373
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:39,519
so we're going it's a little bit fluid

374
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,279
we're going to um

375
00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:44,079
be working on it as

376
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:46,000
you know we'll be shaping it as we go

377
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,000
along because partly is what can you get

378
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:49,920
permission to do what can you shoot

379
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:51,680
etcetera but we're certainly going to

380
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:55,120
start in egypt uh we're starting next

381
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:57,120
month when we get to egypt we're going

382
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:00,079
to start filming in egypt we're going to

383
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:02,000
certainly deal with things like the

384
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,360
sphinx and my work on the sphinx john

385
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,760
anthony west who of course has passed

386
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,440
away now

387
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,199
but what we start with the sphinx

388
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,760
pushing back the age of civilization but

389
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:15,600
we're going to go much further than that

390
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,519
we're going to go with quebec lee tape

391
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:19,920
we'll be shooting in turkey

392
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:22,320
your your audience knows quebec tepe

393
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,440
well

394
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,120
in fact when you look at the kickstarter

395
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:27,839
campaign you'll see that uh

396
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,959
the first image going to the first video

397
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:33,120
linking actually shows me in front of

398
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,240
quebecois topic but the overall theme is

399
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:38,320
really that there was this cycle of

400
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,240
civilization that you and i have talked

401
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,720
about we've spoken about this quite a

402
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:43,920
bit

403
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:46,720
that goes back to before the end of the

404
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:48,959
last ice age and was then devastated

405
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:51,839
with the calamities of it

406
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:53,839
at the end of the last ice age so that's

407
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:57,120
the really overall theme of it really

408
00:16:02,870 --> 00:15:59,120
trying to pull all this evidence

409
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:02,880
together make the case i i don't like

410
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,240
saying this

411
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:06,480
to a certain extent but i do like say it

412
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:09,199
to another extent mystery of the sphinx

413
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,120
do you remember lots of people i hope

414
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,680
will remember mystery of the sphinx that

415
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:15,600
john anthony west and i were involved

416
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:18,000
with back in 1993.

417
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,720
well that was just about the sphinx it

418
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:22,560
was really just about

419
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:24,800
the research at that time but this is

420
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:26,720
now 25 years

421
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:27,839
ago

422
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:30,480
uh my early research on redaying the

423
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,519
sphinx this takes it from there and puts

424
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:35,279
it all together all the things that have

425
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:36,480
happened since

426
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,399
um i know somebody that could do the

427
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:40,800
voice over and narration for you by the

428
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:42,079
way

429
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:44,000
oh yeah yeah

430
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,639
you yeah yeah

431
00:16:50,069 --> 00:16:48,480
i like where you're going with that i

432
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:50,079
was thinking of somebody else but i like

433
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,839
yours better yeah do you have someone

434
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,000
else you you want to mention you'll talk

435
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:56,160
to me later about it i'll audition right

436
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,480
now robert shock is back

437
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,639
all right

438
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:04,319
from a practical point of view if people

439
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,120
want to go and take a look at it the

440
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:09,600
kickstarter campaign that's live now and

441
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:12,559
we've got 18 days to go

442
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:14,720
uh i don't think there's a you have a

443
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:18,400
direct link from your website i i i've

444
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:20,079
done a couple of things we have it up in

445
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:21,600
twitter right now

446
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,480
and of course if you go to uh the links

447
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,640
over at jimmychurchradio.com for dr

448
00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:29,280
shock when you go to his website it's

449
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:30,840
right there

450
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:31,919
kickstarter the homepage it's right

451
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,720
there it's the first um my wife katie

452
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:36,960
calls it the first promo box yes and

453
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:38,880
that's what it is that's the proper term

454
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:41,280
for it but uh people can go and they can

455
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:42,799
click on it

456
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:46,000
and um i hope that people will see fit

457
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:49,200
to um now when i dig here as we move on

458
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:51,039
uh make a donation and there's lots of

459
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:53,600
good rewards so yeah there is uh if you

460
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,919
do a 500 pledge you get all of this

461
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:57,919
stuff but that that doesn't i mean

462
00:18:02,390 --> 00:17:59,039
that's cool

463
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:02,400
but yeah you get your name as uh you get

464
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:04,000
your name in the credits

465
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:05,600
that's right exactly i mean that's

466
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:07,200
pretty cool what what

467
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:09,200
you know i i think actually that's a

468
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:10,240
great

469
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:19,270
otherwise

470
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,110
i believe is going to last well i'm

471
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,880
scrolling through here how much do i

472
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:25,120
have to pledge uh to get lunch with you

473
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:28,160
and katie

474
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,760
i don't see that on the list it should

475
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:32,000
be we will have lunch together it should

476
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:35,200
be here somewhere this is exciting and

477
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:36,080
and

478
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:38,720
there there's so much more to do here uh

479
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:40,240
not only for you

480
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:43,360
in life but uh the way that this is set

481
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:44,640
up here

482
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:47,200
uh the the goal has been met and now the

483
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:50,080
pressure's off let's rock this thing uh

484
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,160
for the next uh couple of weeks and

485
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:54,240
let's see where we end up it's uh very

486
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:57,840
cool very very cool and uh do let jim

487
00:19:02,549 --> 00:18:59,919
know that i'm ready to do a table read

488
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:02,559
if you know if he needs me uh involved

489
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:04,160
i'm right absolutely that's a joke

490
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:06,720
you're supposed to laugh at that point

491
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:08,799
he's probably listening

492
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:13,120
rolling his eyes but uh very exciting

493
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:14,480
stuff now

494
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:17,039
this is what i would like to do um when

495
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:19,760
we come back i i kind of want to uh

496
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:22,400
roll back uh time with you

497
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:24,799
and uh get you maybe in to an

498
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:26,720
uncomfortable place and i want to talk

499
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:29,919
about you robert and you're good at that

500
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,480
and and how we all got here well this is

501
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,240
this is what's most important so let's

502
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:37,120
set it up for a moment i enjoy it uh

503
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:40,160
what where did you grow up

504
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:41,919
where are you asking me now yeah i'm

505
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:43,760
asking you now this is the second born

506
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:46,400
in dc i was born in the swamp you were

507
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:48,480
born in washington dc

508
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:52,080
now uh growing up in washington dc

509
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:54,880
knowing where you are now

510
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:57,120
okay that's one thing but when you were

511
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:00,240
growing up five six years old what did

512
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:03,679
you think you were going to be

513
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,960
oh when i was five or six years old

514
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:09,120
i think i was going to be an artist i

515
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:10,640
think i thought i was going to be an

516
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:13,840
artist were you good

517
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:15,120
uh

518
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:16,240
well

519
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,679
i took art lessons i enjoyed it but um

520
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:23,760
i i don't know i i moved on to other

521
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:24,640
things

522
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,640
but in some ways i still feel like you

523
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:28,640
know what i do is creative and there's

524
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:30,640
an artistic aspect to it that's

525
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,320
absolutely right and you walk around

526
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,039
with the camera all day long that's true

527
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:37,840
that is true i love taking pictures no

528
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:40,720
so you know that i do i do and i find

529
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:43,760
that actually very very interesting

530
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:46,159
because if you think about it you did

531
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,400
grow up to be an artist so let's take a

532
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:50,480
break yeah yeah let's take a break right

533
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:53,360
here our guest tonight is dr robert m

534
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,760
shock i am your host jimmy church this

535
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:57,760
is fade to black when we come back we're

536
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,919
going to continue this conversation i

537
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:01,520
think everybody knows where i'm going

538
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,760
we'll be right back after this stay with

539
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:05,760
us this is fade to block more with

540
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:09,280
robert after this short break

541
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:12,080
you're listening to a preview of fade to

542
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:14,000
black to get the full episode go to

543
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,400
jimmychurchradio.com

544
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,120
and get our podcast click on the podcast

545
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:21,919
banner or sign up in the membership area

546
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:24,960
for downloadable mp3s everything

547
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:29,830
welcome back fade to black i'm yours

548
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,280
jimmy church you can follow me on

549
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:33,840
twitter at j church radio our guest

550
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:34,720
tonight

551
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:36,640
dr robert shock

552
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:39,600
i just posted up in twitter

553
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:43,440
the new addition to our family rita

554
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:46,960
got this from carolyn ford her name is

555
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:49,440
starr she's the most amazing crystal

556
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:50,559
skull

557
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:52,559
and rita took these pictures tonight

558
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:54,159
right before showtime you can see i'm

559
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:56,320
wearing the same shirt that i'm wearing

560
00:22:02,110 --> 00:21:59,919
right now down in the bunker and uh look

561
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:02,120
at this crystal skull

562
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:05,200
absolutely amazing her name is star

563
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:07,360
and you can check it out right now over

564
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:08,720
on twitter

565
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:09,600
uh

566
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,640
go to einstein the crystal skull.com the

567
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,720
links are up and and go and check out

568
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:22,559
the stuff that carolyn ford has she is

569
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:24,080
absolutely the best i want to thank

570
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:27,840
carolyn uh for doing this for us okay

571
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:28,640
uh

572
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:31,440
robert shock this is okay

573
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:32,240
now

574
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:34,480
you're five six seven years old you have

575
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:37,039
dreams of being an artist we all did

576
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:38,400
that's fair enough

577
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,440
you know astronaut pilot artist king you

578
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:43,360
know we all have these dreams

579
00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:45,760
and uh but

580
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:49,440
while that was going on did you have at

581
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:51,520
that age you know five six seven eight

582
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:52,720
years old

583
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:55,760
were you thinking about egypt did you

584
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:00,000
have any thoughts of how we got here

585
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:02,799
was this part of uh growing up

586
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,679
no no i yeah i i was thinking about

587
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:07,600
egypt definitely i was thinking about

588
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:09,679
egypt i was thinking about

589
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:12,000
ancient civilization

590
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:15,679
and i think i can't remember that i was

591
00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:18,640
very young i don't remember what year it

592
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:19,600
was

593
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:20,480
but

594
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:23,039
i was definitely in the range we're

595
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:25,200
talking about five four five six years

596
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:26,799
old i remember being

597
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:29,200
taken by my parents taking you know my

598
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:31,840
parents took me to an exhibition

599
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:34,720
in dc we were in dc

600
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:37,280
and one of the smithsonian or maybe it's

601
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:40,000
national gallery of art or whatnot and

602
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:43,440
they had a an exhibition of tutankhamen

603
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,480
artifacts and i still remember that

604
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:48,480
vaguely but i remember it from when i

605
00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:50,640
was very very young and

606
00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:52,640
i remember being fascinated by one of

607
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:54,640
the gloves one of toots and commons

608
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:56,320
gloves

609
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,320
for some reason that really fascinated

610
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:00,640
me with you know this bejeweled glove

611
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,400
and right i thought it was really neat

612
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,559
and i remember reading

613
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,480
as soon as i could read and like maybe

614
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:09,120
even before looking at the pictures

615
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:10,559
books about

616
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:14,159
ancient egypt and greece and rome

617
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:15,200
actually

618
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:16,240
the

619
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:18,720
period that was most fascinating to me

620
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:22,000
when i was very very young was um

621
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:24,799
the roman not the early roman empire but

622
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:27,679
for some reason the late roman empire uh

623
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:29,840
what what version of the late roman

624
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:33,039
empire are we talking up to

625
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:34,720
the dark ages

626
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,480
it's funny how i reflect on now

627
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:42,880
uh because i wasn't thinking exactly so

628
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:45,200
academically back then but basically the

629
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:50,000
period from about 300 to 500 a.d

630
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:52,320
i found absolutely fascinating with you

631
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:54,799
know the decline of the roman empire the

632
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:55,679
um

633
00:24:59,830 --> 00:24:58,480
split between the eastern western empire

634
00:25:02,070 --> 00:24:59,840
and what

635
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:02,080
led up to essentially the dark ages

636
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:05,360
which ironically now i'm studying a much

637
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:08,000
earlier period but a much earlier period

638
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:09,679
where we also have

639
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:10,880
what

640
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:13,520
was a mighty civilization that uh

641
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:15,200
collapsed

642
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:16,640
the uh

643
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:18,880
the thing that fascinated me and i think

644
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:21,200
everybody else goes through the same

645
00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:23,679
thing when you start to find out

646
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:25,000
the cross

647
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:28,400
pollenization of the cultures and their

648
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,279
gods and their belief system

649
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:34,000
when you find out what you know rome you

650
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,320
know got from greece and what greece you

651
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:38,559
know in turn got from egypt

652
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:41,520
uh you know same gods different names

653
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,919
uh because you learn one side of it you

654
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:46,159
learn about hercules or zeus and you

655
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:50,480
know you and and you hear these uh uh

656
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:53,760
osiris right you hear these names but

657
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:56,559
you associate them exclusively with

658
00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,279
those cultures not knowing that

659
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:02,400
it was it was completely shared and and

660
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:05,600
passed down and across oceans

661
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:08,880
exactly exactly and some of these um

662
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,200
uh you know these common stories these

663
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:14,000
common threads they go back well

664
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:15,840
back to the end of the last ice age

665
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:17,919
before the end of the last ice age i'm

666
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:19,840
absolutely convinced of that based on

667
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:22,080
the evidence that we now have now what

668
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,200
okay now we have two

669
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:27,600
oh man okay let's go right here we have

670
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:28,640
to because

671
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,640
we you actually can talk about this

672
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:32,320
because of the age that we're dealing

673
00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:35,760
with here but we have two big a's

674
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:38,559
we have atlantis and we have aliens

675
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:41,279
and and when you're five six seven eight

676
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,320
years old atlantis and aliens are fair

677
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,640
game we're all yeah right sure

678
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,640
absolutely i guess they're fair game

679
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,640
right and so

680
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,400
what uh what did you think about when

681
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:54,880
you started to hear these stories about

682
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,600
you know atlantis or you know lost

683
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,039
continents

684
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:01,600
and uh of course aliens and e.t in the

685
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:03,279
movies and everything else

686
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:07,669
how did that affect you how did it

687
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:10,400
affect me as a kid yes

688
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:12,799
i was um well i

689
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:15,279
know i will just be honest and

690
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:18,559
straightforward i was never in the alien

691
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:21,200
camp i was always in the atlantis camp

692
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:23,440
if we could put it that way sure i read

693
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:26,080
i read plato when i was very very young

694
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,760
in translation of course english

695
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:29,840
translation but i was fascinated by

696
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:33,440
plato i was fascinated by

697
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,880
the concept that there were earlier

698
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:38,960
civilizations on earth when i say

699
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,200
earlier not just greeks and romans and

700
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:43,440
dynastic egyptians

701
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:44,240
but

702
00:27:48,390 --> 00:27:46,080
i'm sure you and i have talked about

703
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:48,400
this before my grandmother was a

704
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:50,720
theosophist so i was introduced to

705
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:53,360
blabotsky and

706
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:56,559
you know i read isis unveiled and

707
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,559
things like that uh a very early age and

708
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:02,960
was fascinated by the whole concept of

709
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:06,080
earlier we'll call primordial racist

710
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:08,000
that type of thing did you read

711
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:09,440
i was always coming from that

712
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,880
perspective i never was really in the

713
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,640
camp of you know

714
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,640
and again i'm not playing anyone down or

715
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:18,320
i'm just saying you asked me the

716
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:20,480
question right right i was never in the

717
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:23,360
van donekin type camp or

718
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:25,440
you know aliens that type of thing did

719
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:27,520
you read chariots of the gods though i

720
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:29,840
mean that was the oh yeah yeah it was a

721
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:32,320
required reading in the 70s

722
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:35,279
yeah yeah of course i read it but um

723
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:37,120
i uh

724
00:28:42,149 --> 00:28:39,600
i always took it as

725
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:42,159
the way the original edition

726
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,159
phrased it chariots of the gods with a

727
00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:46,080
question mark

728
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:50,480
yeah that's fair what about hp lovecraft

729
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:53,039
oh lovecraft yes i i think lovecraft's

730
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:54,960
fascinating but of course

731
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:56,960
i mean that that's really gets more you

732
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:59,279
know it's considered fictional well but

733
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:00,480
when you

734
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:03,679
i see i think all of us now looking back

735
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,399
blavatsky hp lovecraft

736
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:08,320
chariots of the gods

737
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:12,559
uh you know and that whole idea they're

738
00:29:17,870 --> 00:29:15,600
kind of connected oh they're absolutely

739
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:17,880
connected there's a lot of

740
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,000
cross-pollination i guess is the way

741
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:22,399
people say it uh there's a lot of

742
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:23,679
connections

743
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:26,080
but you know where i'm coming from and

744
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:27,360
when i say you know where i'm coming

745
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:28,880
from because we've talked about this

746
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,159
before ultimately i always follow the

747
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:34,159
evidence you know i am a scientist and i

748
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:36,320
was trained that way but i follow the

749
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:37,760
evidence

750
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:38,640
but

751
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:40,720
thinking about things both in a

752
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:43,679
fictional setting in a speculative

753
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:46,960
setting i believe can open your eyes to

754
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:48,960
things that you wouldn't necessarily see

755
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:50,960
otherwise so evidence that you would not

756
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:52,840
necessarily see

757
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:56,799
otherwise uh because seeing evidence is

758
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,279
not always easy especially if you have

759
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:01,760
blinders on if you have and one thing

760
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:03,919
that john anthony west used to talk

761
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:06,720
about this and you and i i knew him very

762
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:09,760
very well and you knew john anthony west

763
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:12,799
uh and one thing he liked to say was

764
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:13,760
that

765
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:16,880
you know conventional education dumbs

766
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,320
you down well

767
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:20,000
in part what he was saying is it does

768
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:22,720
put these blinders on you and you only

769
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:24,960
see certain types of evidence you only

770
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,240
interpret it

771
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:28,080
certain ways

772
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:30,559
and to for me

773
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:33,039
to delve into some of the other aspects

774
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:34,720
whether people want to put it down or

775
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,679
not by calling a occult or science

776
00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:39,520
fiction or

777
00:30:44,549 --> 00:30:42,080
total speculation it can be very

778
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:44,559
enlightening it can be very opening but

779
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,399
ultimately you have to do get back to

780
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:48,240
the real evidence

781
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:51,440
now as as time that makes any sense it

782
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:53,840
does it does and as

783
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:55,600
as you started to

784
00:31:02,310 --> 00:30:59,279
uh you know grow up you know early teens

785
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:02,320
uh did this uh

786
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:06,159
uh outlook you know about egypt and

787
00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:08,720
and and and romans in ancient history

788
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:11,440
did that continue for you i mean you

789
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,399
know we all study things uh

790
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:16,480
at that age things start to get more and

791
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,600
more important to us for you what was

792
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:22,080
the path doing were you going away from

793
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:24,240
the artwork and starting to look at

794
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:26,640
ancient history a little bit more

795
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:30,000
yeah probably what i ended up doing

796
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:31,840
maybe this will answer the question when

797
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:33,520
i first went to george washington

798
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:36,720
university so this is uh

799
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:38,320
1979

800
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:43,919
yeah

801
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:46,480
i enrolled george washington university

802
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:49,519
you know one of the local colleges since

803
00:32:31,430 --> 00:31:50,320
i

804
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,440
art puts back puts them back together

805
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:33,200
when they've been found you know in

806
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:36,640
rubble or corroded that type of thing

807
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:40,960
and that was one of my earliest uh

808
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:44,240
should we say almost adult goals

809
00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:47,519
as a freshman i dropped that very very

810
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:49,279
very quickly

811
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:52,559
but um that was that was my original

812
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:53,440
goal

813
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:56,799
going to college for about one month so

814
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:59,120
you end up uh with uh ba and

815
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:00,559
anthropology

816
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:02,240
yeah yeah because i

817
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,480
i was fascinated by all these things

818
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:06,960
anthropology at the time one reason i

819
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:10,640
end up with the b a b a i can't talk ba

820
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:13,519
in anthropology i also got a bs in

821
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:16,320
geology and those were simultaneous i

822
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,159
didn't do one and then the other i was

823
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:20,399
doing both of them at the same time as

824
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,279
an undergraduate now don't ask me how i

825
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:25,600
did that i don't know it was a hectic

826
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,360
four years that's uh that's pretty

827
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:29,120
insane that's pretty insane it was

828
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:32,159
insane i i remember going to i'm not

829
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,000
bragging i'm just stating the facts i

830
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:36,640
remember going to see a dean and saying

831
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,840
asking him if i could get a ba and a bs

832
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:41,600
at the same time so no problem you can

833
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:43,279
do a double major don't worry about

834
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:45,120
saying no i don't want to do a double

835
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:48,320
major i want a ba and i want a separate

836
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,159
bs

837
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,480
but i want to do it in four years

838
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:54,720
and he thought i was crazy

839
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,480
and he told me

840
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:58,960
i had to do all this stuff he mapped it

841
00:34:01,909 --> 00:34:00,000
all out

842
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:01,919
and i came back to him four years later

843
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:04,159
i showed him how he did it and i heard

844
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:06,159
later that they changed the rules so

845
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:08,240
that no one could do it again

846
00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:11,520
well i i'm interested but being back to

847
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:13,440
what we're talking about

848
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:14,720
well you go ahead i'm sorry i

849
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:20,470
it's actually your show on the

850
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:24,320
anthropology side um certainly

851
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,119
you know here we are in 2019 and what

852
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:29,119
you were learning about anthropology

853
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:31,520
back then and what you know now about

854
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,240
uh society and history are probably two

855
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,240
different polarized things very

856
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:38,240
different things

857
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:40,879
if i had said things on exams or in

858
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:43,760
class that i now know and in fact things

859
00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:46,240
are now accepted by the general

860
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:49,919
um academic community much less the

861
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:51,919
public i would have failed i would have

862
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:53,599
been thrown out for

863
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:54,879
silly things

864
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:56,240
for instance

865
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:59,599
back then this is a classic example

866
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:01,760
i was going when i was in

867
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,400
undergraduate college if you talked

868
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:07,119
about pre-clovis people

869
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:07,839
in

870
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:09,680
the americas

871
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:11,680
just forget it there was there was no

872
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:12,880
such thing

873
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,839
and

874
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:14,880
how do

875
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:18,160
when you were in school you know versus

876
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:20,560
now but when you were in school

877
00:35:24,430 --> 00:35:23,280
was your focus on uh

878
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:24,440
the

879
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:34,079
past or were you dealing with modern

880
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:37,040
society as far as anthropology

881
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,000
yes

882
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:40,720
oh actually i i was starting to say but

883
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:43,040
then we got sidetracked i actually end

884
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:45,280
up going to anthropology in part because

885
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:48,160
at that time archaeology

886
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:50,079
was within anthropology at least at

887
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,280
george washington right so so and also

888
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:55,520
physical anthropology so as part of my

889
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:57,760
anthropology i took uh

890
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,760
courses in anatomy

891
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:01,920
and human anatomy

892
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:02,960
and

893
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:06,800
human evolution that i was very much

894
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,000
involved in the physical anthropology

895
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:13,200
slash archaeology branch of anthropology

896
00:36:18,150 --> 00:36:15,359
anthropology is a very broad discipline

897
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:18,160
actually i took courses in ethnography

898
00:36:22,470 --> 00:36:20,240
and ethnology and

899
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:22,480
that type of thing too and i found those

900
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:24,800
fascinating at one point i thought maybe

901
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,359
i'll become an ethnographer you know go

902
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:29,359
live with some tribe in

903
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:32,720
the amazon or in somewhere in the middle

904
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,480
of africa for three years and

905
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,400
you know write learn its scholarly

906
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:41,280
papers about them now the

907
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:42,720
the problem one of my problems was i

908
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,800
always had too many interests well see

909
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:47,520
that's what's fascinating uh when you're

910
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,200
able to uh

911
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:51,520
get archaeology and anthropology rolled

912
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:55,280
into one and and take a focus on

913
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:57,599
you know the far distant past

914
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,640
because now you you learn as an adult

915
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:03,280
but i want to know what they taught you

916
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,240
and

917
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:06,480
one if if i was taking an anthropology

918
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:09,599
class and it was rolled into archaeology

919
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,320
uh what i i i would assume they're gonna

920
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:14,560
tell me the secrets about the missing

921
00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:17,280
link right that's that's part of what

922
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:20,480
this goal would be right what was that

923
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:21,359
was

924
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,920
number of courses in human evolution

925
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:26,000
that type of thing right time all of

926
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:28,000
which is totally outdated now because

927
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,000
we've learned so much more right and

928
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:33,119
there's so many more fossils

929
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:34,320
but

930
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:38,400
patterns of thinking the way to

931
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,800
logically analyze things that's not

932
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,240
what's outdated

933
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:44,880
from my you know my years in college in

934
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:47,760
graduate school now today um

935
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:51,440
going back to and this is my

936
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:53,920
this is my frame of reference and i

937
00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:56,240
think most people have this

938
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:58,079
the structure

939
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,119
that we are taught is

940
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:04,560
egypt first 3000 bc

941
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:06,079
greek next

942
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:07,680
700 bc

943
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:11,119
rome next 400 bc and then everything

944
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:11,920
else

945
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:13,920
right it's just like that's supposed to

946
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:15,200
be what it is

947
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:16,640
that's what's supposed to be and of

948
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:18,800
course that's a very western view that's

949
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:21,280
a very um

950
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:24,320
you know one could say bias biased

951
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:25,359
view

952
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:29,040
uh forgets about uh the far east forgets

953
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:36,950
and it also you know it's it it's very

954
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:39,280
eurocentric really

955
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:42,320
or or at least mediterranean-centered

956
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,240
it's it's really strange isn't it but

957
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,400
i'm asking you directly that's that's

958
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:48,720
how it went down for you right at george

959
00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:51,280
washington that was a classical i was

960
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:53,359
trained very classically but everyone

961
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,280
was back then right

962
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:57,359
and how did

963
00:39:02,790 --> 00:38:59,920
do you feel

964
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:02,800
looking back do you think any of your

965
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:04,720
professors

966
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:06,960
and and those around them

967
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:10,480
know that it was probably much different

968
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,119
but they couldn't discuss it either in

969
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:15,200
class or otherwise

970
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:17,200
uh

971
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:19,200
i suspect so

972
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:25,200
were fairly open about things i mean you

973
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:28,560
know i think they were more open-minded

974
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:31,040
even more so in graduate school when i

975
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,599
was at yale i forgot to say that at yale

976
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:35,440
i felt that

977
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:37,680
i got a good education the sense of not

978
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:40,400
the facts because the facts

979
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:43,280
get added to and get reinterpreted but

980
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:45,599
how how you um

981
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,160
analyze the facts

982
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:49,920
well let me it was interesting it was

983
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:52,240
interesting because when i was at um in

984
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:54,400
college undergraduate in particular but

985
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:56,640
graduate too i

986
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:58,400
we were talking about anthropology and

987
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:00,480
archaeology that type of thing remember

988
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:02,480
i also got a degree in geology as an

989
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:04,160
undergraduate

990
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,880
and i that's what i went into as a

991
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:09,440
graduate student geology and geophysics

992
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,240
so that's where my

993
00:40:17,589 --> 00:40:14,640
terminal degree is

994
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:17,599
located in the geology geophysics branch

995
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:20,240
but i never gave up all the art history

996
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:22,640
and the ancient civilizations i just

997
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:25,359
sort of kept that as a parallel track

998
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:26,480
that

999
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:29,119
i was following and studying never gave

1000
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,240
that up even as a graduate student

1001
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:34,240
but getting back to your

1002
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:36,400
question for instance i can give you a

1003
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:39,920
very specific examples in geology the

1004
00:40:46,390 --> 00:40:43,440
faculty members i had

1005
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:46,400
had grown up in a different geological

1006
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:49,760
era what i mean by that is thinking

1007
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:52,880
they in many cases were old enough that

1008
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:55,599
they had not even

1009
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:57,440
played tectonics the whole concept of

1010
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:59,599
plate tectonics right which there's a

1011
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:01,359
lot of controversy about

1012
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:02,400
uh but

1013
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:03,280
they

1014
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:06,560
many of my faculty members my professors

1015
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:09,040
have been trained in a pre-plate

1016
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:12,160
tectonic era yeah because we're talking

1017
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,520
about huge revolution and thinking in

1018
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:18,240
geology in their lifetime that's right

1019
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:21,760
because we're talking about 1980 for you

1020
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:24,079
the whole plate tectonics

1021
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:26,319
didn't really

1022
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:29,119
grab hold until the mid 50s going into

1023
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:32,640
1960s so that's right going to the 1960s

1024
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:34,960
and still there were a lot of holdouts

1025
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:38,319
even in the mid 1960s right uh really

1026
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:41,280
the ultimate evidence with magnetic

1027
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:42,880
striping that type of thing i don't want

1028
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:45,839
to go off on a lot of technical tangents

1029
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:48,160
wasn't uh well developed until at least

1030
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:49,839
the mid-1960s

1031
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:52,079
yeah that's right so i had faculty

1032
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:55,200
members who had seen this occur

1033
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:58,240
in their lifetime in some cases after

1034
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:01,280
they had received their phds

1035
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:04,720
so what would have happened because by

1036
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:08,480
1980 you know the 12th planet and

1037
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:11,520
the conversations about mesopotamia

1038
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:15,760
and and and sumer were certainly being

1039
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:18,319
discussed a little bit more uh

1040
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:21,040
not mainstream but certainly it was out

1041
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,400
there and it was being discussed in the

1042
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:24,400
books and and stuff

1043
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:26,240
what would have happened

1044
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:28,560
if you were sitting in an anthropology

1045
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:30,960
class in 1980

1046
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:33,040
and they're discussing these things you

1047
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:36,560
know egypt 3000 bc and degrees 700 and

1048
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:38,560
roman four and you raised your hand and

1049
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:40,240
said well you know what that may not

1050
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:46,950
no you didn't do that in anthropology

1051
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:48,319
class you didn't do that in the

1052
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,400
archaeology class

1053
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:52,640
and i'm making a distinction here and i

1054
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:55,200
mean this is a serious distinction

1055
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:56,880
you could be

1056
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:59,680
more outlandish should we say and i

1057
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:01,359
don't mean that in a negative way but

1058
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:04,800
more speculative in geology than you

1059
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,920
could in archaeology or anthropology and

1060
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:10,400
i think that's actually one reason

1061
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:13,359
maybe sublime you know subliminal i

1062
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,800
can't say it

1063
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,640
subliminally

1064
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,560
that's what i'm trying to say and uh

1065
00:43:23,829 --> 00:43:20,160
unconscious level because i didn't

1066
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:23,839
really think about consciously at

1067
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:27,520
the time but that i think in hindsight

1068
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:29,839
one reason i ended up doing my advanced

1069
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,400
degrees in geology and geophysics

1070
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:34,560
because i found that the geological

1071
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,680
community was much more open

1072
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:39,280
to

1073
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:42,160
looking at alternative views alternative

1074
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,040
ideas that type of thing i'll give you a

1075
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:47,760
real example and it's it's funny how i

1076
00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:49,599
just remember these things now that

1077
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:50,400
we're

1078
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:55,200
this conversation i remember as a both

1079
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:58,240
as a undergraduate and graduate student

1080
00:44:02,069 --> 00:44:00,000
we would go out we would look at

1081
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:02,079
outcrops we would look at rocks in the

1082
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:04,319
field that type of thing right and it

1083
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:06,880
was not uncommon to have and i can

1084
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:09,680
picture in my mind to this day three

1085
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:11,680
really distinguished faculty members

1086
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:14,720
sometimes more but i remember one case

1087
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:17,200
and this was just one of many incidents

1088
00:44:20,510 --> 00:44:19,200
like this where you'd have three

1089
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:20,520
top-notch

1090
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:23,920
phds they'd all written books they had

1091
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:24,720
um

1092
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:27,680
impeccable credentials and they would in

1093
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:30,240
turn each give their interpretation of

1094
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:32,560
what we were looking at and sometimes

1095
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:35,119
they were die you know absolutely

1096
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:37,520
opposed to each other almost to the

1097
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,800
point you thought they were going again

1098
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:40,640
to fight over it

1099
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:42,720
um

1100
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:47,599
invigorating

1101
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:50,240
the uh you didn't you didn't do their do

1102
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:52,640
that in archaeology classes

1103
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:53,359
the

1104
00:45:00,870 --> 00:44:59,680
you probably started to assemble uh uh

1105
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:00,880
back then

1106
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:04,079
now we're talking about 1980 it's only a

1107
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:05,680
decade later

1108
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:08,319
uh when john anthony west starts to

1109
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:11,119
enter the picture in 1994 and i'd say

1110
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:14,000
you're absolutely right because i met

1111
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,079
john anthony west i went to boston

1112
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:18,720
university i became i got my first and

1113
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:21,119
only job at boston university i suppose

1114
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:23,040
it's a way to put it up in there ever

1115
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:24,079
since

1116
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:24,880
um

1117
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,400
i end up there

1118
00:45:31,349 --> 00:45:28,160
i end up at boston university i don't

1119
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:31,359
mean a belittling way i love it

1120
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:35,520
but i began in september 1984 i met john

1121
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:38,480
anthony west in the late 1980s

1122
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:40,800
first went to egypt in 1990. right

1123
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,720
that's right i'm talking a lot of

1124
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,400
you know we're talking all all these

1125
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:46,480
things happening within a decade

1126
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:51,920
at this point uh between 84 83

1127
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:53,359
and up to

1128
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:54,319
when

1129
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:57,280
before you just before you met john

1130
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:58,240
um

1131
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:02,160
were you starting to have thoughts about

1132
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:10,390
i think i was having thoughts about that

1133
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:11,920
uh

1134
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:15,680
even back in 1980ish

1135
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:16,880
right

1136
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:20,480
yeah yeah yeah absolutely i think i was

1137
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:22,319
but a lot of that then goes back to my

1138
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:26,240
earlier childhood and i mentioned before

1139
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:29,520
i don't know how familiar you are your

1140
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:32,400
audience is with theosophy that you know

1141
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,400
genuine myself hardcore theosophy my

1142
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:39,119
grandmother was a theosophist and they

1143
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:41,119
had a very different timeline for

1144
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:42,400
humanity

1145
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:44,480
i'm not saying i took that seriously but

1146
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:47,280
at least it was something to think about

1147
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:49,359
and i um

1148
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:52,560
i always took plato pretty seriously

1149
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,720
as a great philosopher and i always i

1150
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:56,400
remember thinking as a kid well if he

1151
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,240
was so great with his philosophy and

1152
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,560
ethics and

1153
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:04,960
concepts of government etc people take

1154
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:07,440
this guy so seriously why is it that

1155
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:09,200
some people don't take atlantis so

1156
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:11,040
seriously i remember thinking about that

1157
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,720
as a little kid

1158
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:14,960
not having it quite resolved in my head

1159
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:18,000
i i have looked at the globe just like

1160
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:21,520
you have so many times trying to

1161
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:24,640
find the best spot for atlantis you know

1162
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:27,200
it's just trying to figure that one out

1163
00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:28,880
look yeah

1164
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,319
i don't want to say i've given up on

1165
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:32,160
that but you and i have talked about

1166
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:35,680
this before my view now is not it's not

1167
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:37,760
what's important is not the geographic

1168
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:40,720
location but the timeline yeah yeah we

1169
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:42,960
need to take a break right here but

1170
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:45,920
what if atlantis was

1171
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:48,480
antarctica since we're talking about

1172
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,800
plate tectonics let's take a break right

1173
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:52,800
here robert and we'll be right back

1174
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:53,920
after this

1175
00:47:58,230 --> 00:47:56,480
great conversation but then again we

1176
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,240
knew it because it's

1177
00:48:02,069 --> 00:48:00,079
dr robert shock i'm your host jimmy

1178
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,079
church this is fade to black

1179
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:03,839
more with robert after this break stay

1180
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:13,750
you have just listened to a full hour

1181
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:16,880
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1182
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:18,319
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1183
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:21,440
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1184
00:48:26,790 --> 00:48:24,400
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1185
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:26,800
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1186
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:29,280
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1187
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:32,160
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1188
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:35,040
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